Two Songs That Ruined My Understanding of What Women Want: “You’re So Vain” and “The Sweater”
I humbly submit that two songs, one by Meryn Cadell and one by Carly Simon, are directly responsible for my lifelong misunderstanding of what most women really want and admire in a man. Perhaps, I should sue? If you were similarly damaged, maybe we could start a class action suit? I am sure these songs affected both boys and girls but I will give you my boy’s perspective. All other perspectives are welcome, as always, in the comments section.
I grew up in the eighties and in the shadow of the boomers, as they led a life of constant and obsessive collective recollecting of their days gone by. Radio was my primary source of music and it was dominated by boomer retro-programming (W1310: Solid Gold Hits of the 50s, 60s, and 70s!). The music of my youth was more or less the youth-music of people who were a lot older than me. And a mainstay of Classic Hit Am Radio was — and probably still is — Carly Simon’s “You’re So Vain.” Here’s a Youtube clip of her playing it live:
If the listener chooses to identify with the singer, the implication of the song is clear: this hyper-successful, confident guy, who gets all the girls is not what a woman really wants. Sure, she wanted him when she was young and naive, but now she is so totally over all that. Moreover, a mature sensible woman really shouldn’t want to have anything to do with that kind of guy. Based on this song, a young impressionable lad might also conclude: any man who wants a sensible, attractive, and talented woman better not aspire to be like the cool guy identified in the song. This resonated with my young brain and I internalized it: don’t be like the cool guy, don’t be like the cool guy, don’t be like cool guy.
Of course, at the time, I failed to understand some important nuances of the song. First, she is singing the narrative after she had been with Mr. Cool Guy and wanted him. Second, the song implies she was dumped or, at the very least, insufficiently cherished. Third, the easiest way for a person to make herself feel better about the loss of something which she wants is to pretend like she never really should have wanted it in the first place. So, the more sensible conclusion I should have drawn from this song is that the person addressed in it is exactly what most women want and that some women will pretend they don’t want it when they think they can’t have it. Sometimes, they will even try to convince others they shouldn’t want it either.
Of course, the game Simon plays in this song is by no means gendered. Both boys and girls often mock or deride things which they themselves want but don’t have. Many a boy has mocked a friend for receiving the attentions of a girl precisely because he also desperately wanted the attention of the (any?) girl (um, sorry, young Wayne et al). For some, it makes more sense to scorn and mock that which is not possessed because, in doing so, the sense of lack might just disappear.
Curiously, our language facilitates this perverse strategy. We need only speak that which is desired with a particular tone and it immediately transforms into something that no sensible person could ever possibly desire. E.g. “Ice cream, who wants that?” “Who is Mr. / Ms. Popular now” (I feel confident we all know the tone implied by those italics). Moreover, there are a bunch of words which effectively identify the same behavior but cast it in a negative or positive light. Hello, virtues and vices, I’m looking in your direction. These features of language make me think we humans have been raining on each others parades for a long long time.
Fast forward a few years. Do you remember when Muchmusic played music videos? in 1992, Meryn Cadell had a surprise Top 40 hit with “The Sweater”. I was young, impressionable, unduly influenced by the early writings of E. Hemingway, and doing my best not to be the popular guy (Thanks, Carly!). On reflection, it probably takes a lot more work not to be accepted by the tribe than it is to be accepted. At any rate, I watched a lot of music videos in between my moments of anti-hero solitary pathos (e.g. masturbation) and I often watched Cadell’s video. Here it is, in all it’s early nineties glory:
The key line which further reinforced and substantiated my total misunderstanding of what women really want: “And you know you are dealing with someone who is different. And different is not what you are looking for!”
Because the video is dripping with irony and largely poking fun at the “typical” teenage girl, my now technically adult brain concluded, “Aha! Girls should — and probably secretly prefer — someone who is different, unique, and very much like a snow flake: someone who is separate, stands away from the pack, tribe-less, etc. Teenager girls like hunky popular boys. Songwriting poetesses like alienated men: L’Etranger.
In hindsight, I now know this to be hogwash. Girls do no want someone who is different. Girls want guys who are normal by the standards of the tribe with which she identifies. Guys can be different and desirable, so long as they are different exactly like everyone else in her tribe or whatever tribe she thinks (even secretly sometimes) is her tribe. Guys who are different and have no clear membership in any tribe are the lowest of the low. In other words, Cadell totally lied to me via her irony. Thanks a lot.
Again, the unattractiveness of difference is not strictly-speaking a uniquely female trait. Most guys pretty much want a girl who accords with the standards of the tribe with which he identifies. Although I think there may be an asymmetry here best captured by our social conventions in fashion and especially formal wear. Women need to present difference, whereas guys blend in. Women dress to stand out in formal wear; male formal wear effectively makes all men look alike. Guys, I think, are more likely to admire and desire difference in women, especially if it is built on a foundation of sexual availability.
At any rate, these songs, and a whole host of cultural forces of which they are symptomatic, are directly responsible for a massive misunderstanding on my part for the vast majority of my life. My misunderstanding: most women really want a man who is different, not especially admired by other people (especially women), and who is not especially aware of his status within the group with which she identifies. Reality: most women really want a man who accords with the norms of the tribe with which she identifies, is admired by lots of other people in that tribe, and acts in accord with that admiration. Ah well, live and learn.
Any one know a good lawyer?
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Excellent post! I might have to launch a lawsuit against you though. While you may have been misinformed by cultural icons in our society I was largely oblivious to these themes and narratives until I internalized them from you
Since this post is partially about redemption, and not just retribution, I will forgive you. I’m sure you’ll treat my adolescent transgressions against you in a similar light. That being said, I feel I owe an apology to “Cat”, a girl I met at a midnight beach party in the Summer of ’93, whose tongue ended up my in my mouth for awhile, and who I dropped with appalling ease after Sterling exhaled sharply through his nose in my vicinity. Then again Sterling is not solely to blame for my heartlessness, I had just graduated from high school and she was about to begin grade 11. In my 19 year-old brain, I rationalized it would never work out as we were clearly generations apart in maturity, which I demonstrated by err… running away to play with the boys.
Wayne C
May 13, 2009
Maybe I should only drink organic beer for a month or something.
sterlinglynch
May 13, 2009
I didn’t know you two went so far back! Neat.
If a woman’s tribe or inner circle is a bunch of non-conformist, non-bathing, free-thinkers, then she is wanting someone pretty different from the homogenous norm. I’m not sure why this is problematic??
Yes, ‘guys’ like difference in women. Different as in has the nicest bum and Longest, blondest hair. Just kidding, but suffice it to say there is far more pressure in standing out than blending in.
Paper Bag Princess
May 13, 2009
Still farther even. Wayne and I met in Grade Seven — I guess, that’s 13 / 12 respectfully. We’ve known each longer than the girl who was shamelessly throwing herself at Wayne the other night has been alive! OMG! That is a painful realization! There is, at least one, reader and occasional commentator who has known me since Grade 3 — maybe Grade 2. That’s like 8.
In your given group, if I were to follow the advice I learned, I would promptly start conforming, washing, and being close-minded — and thus ruin my chances with this smelly little creature of which you speak. Although in this case the circle would come full circle and I would suddenly be attractive to the creamy middle again. Although strictly speaking I’ve never known a group of non-conforming, free-thinkers who didn’t end up conforming to each other and free-thinking in the same way. We are apes. No way to escape it. Which is the real punch-line of the post, I suppose.
sterlinglynch
May 13, 2009
“Yes, ‘guys’ like difference in women. Different as in has the nicest bum and Longest, blondest hair. Just kidding, but suffice it to say there is far more pressure in standing out than blending in.”
I know you’re kidding PBP but the kinds of specific qualitative observations/ judgments you are jokingly making here are in fact more typically female than male. That’s not to say that men are not noticing these kinds of attributes but throw a typical man into a room of women and then ask him afterwards who had the “prettiest long hair” or even “nicest bum” and I think the answer might surprise you. It would probably be “wrong” by exacting female beauty standards.
Depending on the male in question the answers would be different of course but at the heart of it, I suspect, has a lot to do with what Sterling has said here. In one instance, a male might pick the woman who he thinks has the greatest chance with sexually (for nicest bum (reinforcing ego). Alternatively, another male might pick the woman he thinks he has the least chance with for this prize. The actual bums themselves are largely irrelevant. What makes a woman attractive to the typical man? I believe it is status and “accessibility” (which can often but not always be translated as availability for sex).
Of course status/standing out for women is tied in with beauty. Though it’s usually the women who decide who is beautiful and who is not. The men accept it and react accordingly desiring, pursuing, etc. Maybe that’s why many women feel this pressure so keenly. It is a standard largely created by women even though it can be ruthlessly applied by men.
Wayne C
May 14, 2009
It may be true that women, to a certain degree, set beauty standards for themselves and by extension for men. But I feel it more precise to add that they do so in response to a patriarchal culture that determines that women’s ‘value’ is over-determined by their physical appearance. Women may help determine the rules of this game, but the game itself is rooted in patriarchy.
Paper Bag Princess
May 14, 2009
Also, I should not make jokes about men, women, and bums. Sorry – my bad.
(:
Paper Bag Princess
May 14, 2009
Nein! I insist you continue to make jokes about men, women, bums — and don’t forget the long blonde hair. Especially, if it generates a great post / topic for discussion, which this throw-away gag has. I’ve even got a nice story to personalize it, too We will definitely come back to this topic because I think there is much to be said that is valid in Wayne’s initial observation and also in your rebuttal.
sterlinglynch
May 14, 2009
I agree with Sterling that bum jokes, if anything, should be encouraged. Your comment about patriarchy being at the root of imposing beauty as a measurement of female status is definitely interesting. Clearly status for men is tied to power, wealth, and influence (and this fits in with your argument about patriarchy). I think we accept that women determine feminine beauty standards, which men then adopt and implement.
Here is a question I’ve come up with: 1. Male beauty/handsomeness used to be trumped by wealth, social influence etc. this is apparently changing with more men focused on physical appearances than previous generations. Is this a sign of patriarchy slipping? Or is this a way of reinforcing it even further during a time of crisis by throwing females another bone (male beauty standards) while keeping real power in masculine hands?
Wayne C.
May 14, 2009
Oh good! Cause that no bum jokes thing was *totally* an empty promise.
(:
Paper Bag Princess
May 14, 2009
Hey Sterling,
As much as I appreciate your tour of the unfortunate pop-crimes of the past, I’m not sure I can let this post go without pointing out that in both of the social circles I knew you in – the grad students at U of C and the theatre company we inhabited during the same period – you were pretty much the alpha male with a number of women who found your “unattractive different-ness” very attractive. Is it just that you weren’t interested in the women of those tribes, or do you feel that these situations were somehow fundamentally different from the tribes you’ve been in before and since?
rostockrose
May 15, 2009
Welcome back Rostockrose!
Good question which cuts to the heart of the matter.
I guess the short answer is that I don’t think I’ve ever conceived of myself as a ranking male (especially sexual ranking) even when I was literally the highest-ranking male (e.g. back in my Army Cadet days). I think that is partly explained by the misunderstanding identified in this post. I wanted so much not to be the “cool guy” — because I thought this was the goal — that I couldn’t or wouldn’t recognize my status when all signs from the tribe indicated I was in fact the cool guy. Silly, but true.
The fact that some of the women in those tribes found my anti-hero mojo attractive, I think, supports my hypothesis about what women really want. Despite my best efforts to be all alienated, at the end of the day, I was a pretty good philosophy student and a pretty good actor and that’s probably what mattered most for women who identified with these tribes. Even my whole loner schtick works particularly well for these tribes. Really, it’s no surprise that I ended up in them; the game I was playing they rewarded. I guess it’s proof there is a tribe for every monkey and, if s/he keeps looking, s/he will find the right one for him or her.
sterlinglynch
May 15, 2009
Is this why I’m still single? Cuz I think like a guy? I want the unique, stand out in a crowd, quirky guy. Hmmm, I’m usually the guy in my relationships… maybe I need to reflect on that.
On another note:
Why would you want that girl? She would be boring and not into you…and you deserve more…
Stacey S
May 21, 2009
Hey Stacey! Thanks for reading and replying!
It could be a question of supply. If guys (and gals) are encouraged to appear middle of the road, there will simply be less quirky guys from which to choose. And people can also be quirky without necessarily being solid folks too and that further culls the herd. So, it doesn’t seem to me a huge surprise that you might have a harder time finding a good partner who meets all your expectations. Similarly, all girls who have been encouraged to admire popular alpha-male types need not necessarily be boring.
sterlinglynch
May 22, 2009
A little late on this, but just wondering: Does the fact that Cadell is now a man have any potential to have an impact on your perception of his/her wisdom in “The Sweater”?
Kel Parsons
June 22, 2009
It certainly complicates matters but saying anything more than that requires opening up a whole can of worms about gender identity. So for now I will settle for “it complicates matters.”
sterlinglynch
June 23, 2009
I wondered if you would choose this (wise) path.
Kel Parsons
June 23, 2009
I want to half-disagree with your conclusion, but you’ve thrown a rock in the wheel…
I could honestly say that I like men who are confident AND different. And confident about being different. But what is different? Nobody can escape labels and types, even if no two people are exactly the same.
You said: “Guys can be different and desirable, so long as they are different exactly like everyone else in her tribe or whatever tribe she thinks (even secretly sometimes) is her tribe. Guys who are different and have no clear membership in any tribe are the lowest of the low.”
Can you offer a character description of a person is completely outside of any kind of tribe? Because I can’t even think how this could happen. What I will grant you is that some tribes have much smaller populations than others, and members may be fewer and far between. I, for instance, cannot identify with any of the mainstream, commonly-accepted archetypes. But I am not so arrogant as to think I’m the only person like me out there. Surely my tribe exists. I’m counting on that.
I would also argue that men and women are no different in this vein. We all want someone fitting the ideals of our individual tribes, and we all would prefer that they do so in an extraordinary way.
I’d say it serves no purpose to waste energy trying to be either different or the same as other people. You are always going to be the same person, whether you let others see it or not. If you manufacture a persona that isn’t your own, you’ll be trapped in a tribe that doesn’t really fit you. Where, not only are you going to have trouble finding a woman you truly desire, but you’re also going to have trouble making that woman desire you. The chances of you being extraordinary at being someone other than yourself (I don’t care how gifted of an actor you are) are not nearly as high as your chances at being an extraordinary you. Thus begins the downward spiral.
All in all, it doesn’t really matter who or what you are. If you fall a few standard deviations from the norm, it may be more difficult to find other (attractive, available) members of your tribe, but I’m convinced they are out there.
Bryn
June 27, 2009
I agree in a world with five billion folks there is someone for everyone. Even so, I’m not convinced that the mere fact that those someones exist justifies saying there is a tribe of those someones. Tribe is a verb — if you catch me drift. It involves interacting in a certain way. For example, if a person hangs around in the presence of other people, it doesn’t mean they are part of a tribe. Likewise, people who share a common purpose and values but never interact are not a tribe either.
So, a person with no tribe is simply any person who is not recognized (in terms of membership and status) by any group of people or who refuses to identify or interact with any group of people. Concrete examples: The Unabomber, some mystics, some homeless folks, many of the mentally ill, the new kid in town, someone ignored by the cool kids but who refuses to associate with the nerds, etc.
And yes I agree. I also think the best course of action is for a person to be who s/he wants to be and surf the consequences. I also share your optimistic conclusion.
sterlinglynch
June 30, 2009
Ok, well then, I will go back to my original argument… which is that some of us really want a guy who’s different.
Bryn
June 30, 2009